"On ne peut pas comparer statistiquement des nombres entiers, et là ce sont deux nombres entiers de tumeurs au cours du temps." G-E Seralini 2012
The video clip above is in French. The source of this vimeo clip is here. A partial transcript is here .
Rough English Translation of why CRIIGEN didn't do the obvious stats tests on their findings:
"We didn't do stats because stats are not that important in biology; besides you can't do stats with integer numbers..."
Here are phrases to look out for in the video clip:
La statistique n'est pas la vérité en biologie, c'est un des éléments de rapprochement par rapport à tout le reste, c'est-à-dire les rats, la pathologie, la biochimie, les organes et ce que nous faisons c'est quand on compare par exemple 12 à 4 c'est dire "et bien, c'est 3 fois plus."
On ne peut pas comparer statistiquement des nombres entiers, et là ce sont deux nombres entiers de tumeurs au cours du temps.
Et il n'y a pas non plus de modèle statistique qui permette de suivre la courbe de la mortalité ou de la tumeur des rats dans cette circonstance, donc on ne peut pas non plus inventer de modèle statistique qui tirerait des hypothèses comme par exemple le fait que c'est linéaire ou que ce n'est pas linéaire a priori pour pouvoir trouver quelque chose.
Donc nous nous sommes afranchis de ces hypothèses mathématiques pour au contraire corréler tous les arguments que nous avions de manière à affirmer ce que nous avions. "
Pourriez les spectateurs voient bilingues cet article s'il vous plaît fournir une traduction du texte ou d'autres détails de l'entrevue qu'ils se soucient de fournir, dans les commentaires de ce post?
Could any bilingual viewers seeing this item please supply a translation of the text or any further details of the interview they care to supply in the comments of this post?
Translation provided in the comments from M. Seppi:
Translators have a saying: « sh.. in, sh.. out ». So here it is:
Statistics are not the truth in biology, they are a linking element with respect to the rest, that is, rats, pathology, biochemistry, organs; and what we do is to compare for instance 12 with 4 and say: « it's three times more. »
You cannot compare whole numbers – [call an ambulance! I'm dropping dead!] – statistically, and here we have two whole numbers of tumours in the course of time.
And there is no statistical model allowing us to follow the rat mortality or tumour curve in those circumstances, so we cannot invent a statistical model from which to derive hypothesises such as the fact that it is linear or at first sight not linear in order to find something.
We therefore avoided those mathematical assumptions to, on the contrary, correlate all the arguments we had in order to affirm what we had.
This is apparently from here [Pundit yes it is]
Who they are? Click on the link at the bottom of the page and you are referred to the... main page. The site was conceived by Christophe Noisette, one of the gurus of anti-GMO http://www.infogm.org/
The interview has apparently been taken by Hervé Kempf, a journalist from Le Monde. Guess what his GM orientation is... It has been taken over by Rue89 (in part), an online newspaper:
http://www.rue89.com/rue89-planete/2012/10/05/seralini-lauteur-de-letude-sur-les-ogm-repond-ses-detracteurs-235914
See also later posts which are a follow-up to this item:
- GMO Statistics Part 19. ANSA When we take into account the multiplicity of tests , no difference in rat deaths in the CRIIGEN study is significant.(French Food Safety Agency ANSA does the stats tests CRIIGEN omit from their paper)
- GMO Statistics Part 20. Discrete Events. It’s the tests Gilles-Eric rejects that make Gilles-Eric the best.
- GMO Statistics Part 21. The tests Gilles-Eric rejects part 2
Other statistical lessons from CRIIGEN:
see
- GMO Statistics Part 16.
- CRIIGEN's track record with EFSA
- Lies, Damn lies, and Statistics
- Il y a 3 sortes de mensonges : les mensonges, les foutus mensonges, et les mensonges "anti-OGM"
- GMO Statistics Part 24. Correlations without Causation.
Appendix 4 of above HCB French report (English translation)
English translation version by Kevin Bleakley, Inria Saclay
Translators have a saying: « sh.. in, sh.. out ». So here it is:
ReplyDeleteStatistics are not the truth in biology, they are a linking element with respect to the rest, that is, rats, pathology, biochemistry, organs; and what we do is to compare for instance 12 with 4 and say: « it's three times more. »
You cannot compare whole numbers – call an ambulance! I'm dropping dead! – statistically, and here we have two whole numbers of tumours in the course of time.
And there is no statistical model allowing us to follow the rat mortality or tumour curve in those circumstances, so we cannot invent a statistical model from which to derive hypothesises such as the fact that it is linear or at first sight not linear in order to find something.
We therefore avoided those mathematical assumptions to, on the contrary, correlate all the arguments we had in order to affirm what we had.
This is apparently from:
http://www.reporterre.net/spip.php?article3280
Who they are? Click on the link at the bottom of the page and you are referred to the... main page. The site was conceived by Christophe Noisette, one of the gurus of anti-GMO http://www.infogm.org/
The interview has apparently been taken by Hervé Kempf, a journalist from Le Monde. Guess what his GM orientation is... It has been taken over by Rue89 (in part), an online newspaper:
http://www.rue89.com/rue89-planete/2012/10/05/seralini-lauteur-de-letude-sur-les-ogm-repond-ses-detracteurs-235914
Merci M. Seppi.
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